Category talk:Genres

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Contents

The Problem

I have been looking at and thinking about Category structure, because we are trying to build a cultural reference site here rather than a standard enciclopedia already many index pages have sprung up and people have been wasting time alphabetizing them.

The Idea

In Breef

Mediawiki already has the ability to auto alphabatise pages using its category system. it is an automaticaly generated list of link pages generated from category references in the target pages.

what I propose doing is creating a deep hiarachy of categories for Genres

What it looks like

How to use

Groups and Artists will get listed under Specific Genres that most suit their style, then each song individually will get listed under the "(music)" genre that most suits it.

we should not add individual members of a group into the Genre categories unless they are themselves also soloists.

Example page entries

At the bottom of BoA's page we should have. 

<!--meta information-->

 [[Category:Artists]]
 [[Category:J-Pop]]
 [[Category:K-Pop]]

At the bottom of BLOOD's page we should have. 

<!--meta information-->

 [[Category:Groups]]
 [[Category:Visual-Kei]]
 [[Category:Indies]]

notice that BLOOD is not listed in J-Rock and Visual-Kei, as Visual-Kei is a subcategory of J-Rock and the dual classification is redundant. Also notice how BoA is listed in J-Pop and K-Pop both are sub-categories of Pop but including them both is not redundant.

For Song or Album Titles we classify them in there "(music)" Genre, Hikki's Automatic for example. 

<!--meta information-->

 [[Category:J-Pop (music)]]

For Singles I think we should try to classify then in one Genre but for Albums it is possible they will have songs of multiple Genres on them and as such adding them to multiple categories is acceptable.

But I don't like it

Does anybody have a better idea?


Better Idea (maybe?)

That would be fine IF we knew exactly where "ARTISTS" and "GROUPS" and basic categories like that were on the tree. We should implement a solid structure, like you were saying, but I think it should look like this:

J-MUSIC

  • Pop
    • J-Pop
      • J-Pop Groups
        • J-Pop Artists (people that make up a group)
        • Other important people associated in the group who do not actually perform in it
        • A single/album by a J-Pop group
      • J-Pop Soloists
        • A single/album by a J-Pop soloist
          • A song on a single/album by a J-Pop soloist
        • A J-Pop Project (like Hello! Project)
          • Groups in that project (Morning Musume)
            • Subgroups (Divisions of Morning Musume)
          • Artists involved in the project (so that they are not redundantly named in several subgroups)
  • Rock
    • J-Rock
      • "normal" J-Rock Groups
        • "normal" J-Rock Artists (people that make up a group)
      • "normal" J-Rock Soloists
      • Visual Kei Groups
        • Visual Kei J-Rock Artists
  • Other style categories, etc...
  • Companies
    • Distributors
      • King Records
      • Warner Music Japan
      • etc.
    • Licensing Companies
      • Tofu Records

This way, when newbies to the wiki put in, say "TWO-MIX", they'd know that went in "J-Pop Artists", rather than mistaking them for "Groups," "Artists," and "J-Pop" all at once. Even with BoA, she could be under "J-Pop Artists," and "K-Pop Artists" with no trouble. Similarly, they would know to put Gackt in "Visual Kei J-Rock Artists" as well as "J-Pop Artists".

In short, having more-specifically-named categories and having the heirarchy written on the main page will DEFINITELY cut down on the problems with new entries. Of course, it would make a few problems for the old ones, but we can root those out. What do you all think?

--Yoshiaki Abe 15:02, 20 Sep 2004 (JST)

very true

But with your new layout you are creating a whole lot more categories, your J-Pop Genre has 10 subsections whereas my original proposal only has 2, artists/groups and songs/singles/albums.

Granted J-Pop is larger because of the popularity of Hello project, JJ and other stable type efforts but even without them the list is still large.

now the advantage of your layout is clear, if somebody is only looking for J-Pop groups, then having a single category makes it easier. But if they want a complete list and don't care if it is a group or soloist then that would require looking at two lists. --Womby 15:19, 20 Sep 2004 (JST)

Easy Answer

Easy way to solve that. Add an INDEX Category:

  • Index
    • J-Pop Index (lists anything grouped in any subsection of the other J-Pop page)
    • J-Rock Index (lists anything grouped in any subsection of the other J-Rock page)
    • Complete Index (maybe, if it's not too hard to do... basically this is a link to every other informative page in the wiki)
    • etc.

It would only be hard because it would need to be manually updated, but if you want, I can take charge of that and see how far I can get it :-)

--Yoshiaki Abe 15:24, 20 Sep 2004 (JST)

P.S. - These index pages would contain lists of EVERY PAGE that we have on the wiki in some way or another, like any good index should.

No

The categories are to get away from Manually updated indexes, that is there function.

To Create a Genre Schema that then requires a manual index means that the Schema is wrong.

Actually

We could make categories out of "J-Pop Index" and "J-Rock Index" - that would also solve the problem. That way, everything on the wiki would ideally be a part of only two categories: the one from my diagram, and the index it belonged to.

--Yoshiaki Abe 16:13, 20 Sep 2004 (JST)

P.S. - Sorry if I said something wrong. This is, after all, my first experience with wiki.

P.P.S. - There's no reason to do a full index anyway with this.

Don't apologise

This is my first Wiki too, my original idea for the genre indexes would have had more categories than yours and involved adding each page to 4 or 5 indexes, it would have been crazy. --Womby

Then why don't we do this...

Since you sound like you are firmly in favor of your outline, why don't you post that on the main page (or at least as a terribly obvious link) so that people can figure out what categories to group their stuff in. That way, I can start grouping all of my stuff too ;-).

--Yoshiaki Abe 18:13, 20 Sep 2004 (JST)

P.S., when you list it, list it like:

etc.

I just looked at what you said before, and it makes much more sense now. It'd be easier to understand if you included "Groups" and "Artists" in the tree.

Good Idea

I will get the list on the front-page soon.

??

Why are there two categories for basically the same category: why this there Urban and Urban (music)? ~themonkeyofdoom

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